Appearing together publicly for the first time in the history of their agencies, the heads of the U.S. and British intelligence services discussed Ukraine’s incursion into Russia and the war in Gaza.
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By Mark Landler
Reporting from London
Sept. 7, 2024Updated 4:54 p.m. ET
The chiefs of the C.I.A. and the British Secret Intelligence Service, appearing together publicly for the first time in the history of their agencies, said on Saturday in London that Ukraine’s surprise offensive in the Kursk region had exposed vulnerabilities in Russia’s military and was an “audacious” effort to “try and change the game” in the two-and-a-half-year-old war.
“The Kursk offensive is a significant tactical achievement,” said William J. Burns, the director of the C.I.A. He said it had “put a dent” in the narrative propagated by President Vladimir V. Putin that Russia would grind down Ukraine and exploit divisions in the Western alliance to dictate the terms of a settlement.
Richard Moore, the chief of the British service, also known as MI6, said it was “typically bold and audacious on the part of the Ukrainians to try and change the game,” adding, “I think they have, to a degree, changed the narrative.”
For two of the world’s most powerful spy chiefs, it was a deeply unaccustomed setting: seated next to each other on a sofa, chatting about the most sensitive intelligence issues their agencies face, before an audience gathered by The Financial Times at an annual festival, which features a champagne-tasting tent and panels on subjects like “How can we justify eating steak?”
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Neither Mr. Burns nor Mr. Moore suggested that the Kursk offensivewould change the course of the war. Russian troops have continued what Mr. Moore described as their “pyrrhic” march through Ukrainian territory. Both warned of dangerous new developments like Iran’s transfer of ballistic missiles to Russia, which Mr. Burns said would represent a “major escalation,” though he did not confirm published reports that such a transfer of short-range missiles had already occurred.
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But Ukraine’s offensive was perhaps the most encouraging development in what Mr. Burns and Mr. Moore called a geopolitical landscape fraught with risks: from Russian intelligence agents in Europe who Mr. Moore said had “gone a bit feral,” to the negotiations for a hostage deal with Hamas, which Mr. Burns said was now focused on producing a “good enough” proposal.
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- Aysenur Eygi, the American activist killed in the West Bank, had been a campus organizer.
- Palestinian officials blame Israeli troops for the killing, and for a separate one of a Palestinian girl.
- Hamas’s daily release of hostage videos inflames divisions in Israel.
Both men were intent on showcasing the collaboration between the C.I.A. and MI6. They pointed to the declassification of intelligence about Russia’s plans to invade Ukraine before the war as an example of how the agencies had worked together — and emerged somewhat from the shadows.
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Both have themselves moved between the worlds of diplomacy and intelligence. Mr. Burns, 68, is a career diplomat who came to the C.I.A. after serving as deputy secretary of state and ambassador to Russia. Mr. Moore, 61, came up as an intelligence officer before being appointed ambassador to Turkey.
Mr. Burns has also been heavily involved in trying to negotiate a deal to release Israeli and other hostages being held by Hamas in Gaza. He said the United States hoped to present a detailed proposal in the coming days, though he played down the prospects for success.
While Mr. Burns said 90 percent of the text had been agreed to by Israel and Hamas, the last 10 percent was a hurdle. “The last 10 percent is the last 10 percent for a reason,” he said, “because it’s the hardest part to do.”
“This goes to a question of whether or not leaders on both sides are prepared to recognize that enough is enough, and that the time has come for me to make some hard choices,” Mr. Burns said.
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Britain, under its new Labour government, has parted company with the United States on the Gaza war. It announced last week that it would suspend exports of some weapons to Israel, citing a legal review that concluded the weapons could be used in a way that would breach humanitarian law.
On Ukraine as well, Britain has leaned further than the United States in its support of the Ukrainian military, expressing a willingness for its Storm Shadow missiles to be used in strikes on military targets inside Russia. President Biden has voiced fears that strikes inside Russian territory could escalate the conflict.
Mr. Burns and Mr. Moore steered clear of discussing those differences, keeping the focus on common enemies like Mr. Putin. Mr. Moore said Russia continued to try to destabilize European countries with intelligence operatives, who he said were waging an increasingly reckless campaign of sabotage.
For his part, Mr. Burns said the C.I.A. was “very sharply focused” on the threat of Russian agents operating in Mexico, where there are reports that they are trying to encourage illegal migration into the United States, as a way to destabilize the country during a presidential election year.
“Part of that is a function of so many Russian agents kicked out of Europe,” Mr. Burns said. “So they are looking for somewhere to go instead.”
Mark Landler is the London bureau chief of The Times, covering the United Kingdom, as well as American foreign policy in Europe, Asia and the Middle East. He has been a journalist for more than three decades. More about Mark Landler
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